joseph
Junior Member
Market farmer
Posts: 57
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Post by joseph on Nov 7, 2010 15:14:41 GMT -8
I noticed the following were for sale on eBay...
Lycopersicon chilense WILD NATIVE FLORIDA EVERGLADES TOMATO SEEDS Organic Matt's Wild Cherry Tomato WILD PERUVIAN TOMATO-rare flowering solanum Legend F1 Hybrid Tomato 15 Seeds - Disease Resistant (Contains genes from wild tomatoes)
Regards, Joseph
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Post by DarJones on Nov 7, 2010 17:10:16 GMT -8
I have two lines of L. Chilense to grow next year and they happen to be lines with septoria tolerance. Both Matt's Wild Cherry and Legend have the PH2 gene for tolerance to late blight. The everglades tomato does not have any special resistance that I am aware of but it is prolific and grows out of most infections. The wild peruvian tomato could be L. Peruvianum which might be of some interest except that I already have two accessions from TGRC. Unfortunately, there are serious genetic barriers between the domestic tomato and both Chilense and Peruvianum. You can make crosses with rescued tissue cultured embryos to bring genes across. www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/Tomato/pcomplx.htmlDarJones
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Post by murgatroyd on Nov 7, 2010 20:50:04 GMT -8
Is the Galapagos Islands Currant Tomato (Cheesmanii tomato) the same as one of the previously mentioned types?
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Post by DarJones on Nov 7, 2010 23:02:51 GMT -8
Solanum Cheesmaniii is an interesting tomato but so far has not really been discussed. There are two subspecies on the Galapagos Islands. One is found in saltflat marshy wetlands near the coast and the other is found on hilly terrain. Both have unusual germination inhibitors in the seedcoat. The variant that grows in salt marsh has documented tolerance to salinity in the soil. A couple of interesting genes that came from this species are the high beta carotene gene found in Carorich and 97L97 and the jointless pedicel gene which should be used in more commercial varieties. There are a few interesting disease tolerance genes in this species.
The question was asked whether I am using any wild species in tomato breeding. First, let me be clear that I am strictly an amateur. With that said, I have four L. Pimpinellifolium plants in the greenhouse that I am trying diligently to cross with Burgundy Traveller. I have a few set fruit so time will tell. I am trying to get some septoria tolerance and some late blight tolerance at the same time.
Working with wild species is a long term project at best. It takes time to introgress a useful gene combination into a domestic tomato background.
DarJones
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Post by PatrickW on Nov 8, 2010 1:50:52 GMT -8
Now that we are aware of the bottleneck are any of the growers on this list breeding with wild tomatoes? It seems to me that in today's world of instant communication and easy travel that such genetic bottlenecks could be easily removed. Near my home a wild perennial watermelon relative has naturalized (Bryonia Alba). It has a narrow genetic base... I think it would be a great service to the natural world if someone brought enough seed from Europe or Asia to expand the genetic diversity here. There is nothing unusual or rare about breeding with wild plant varieties. In fact this is in general the path followed by nearly all serious plant breeders when looking for new traits. For some years now there's been an ongoing hunt in Europe for wild tomatoes that have resistance to late blight, with the intention of breeding that resistance into common tomatoes. There's a lot of work with cereal grains right now, looking for genes in wild species. In terms of wild tomatoes specifically, there are probably thousands of wild varieties available. The problem is most of them don't produce interesting fruits. The ones you see for sale on ebay or other seed stores, are the ones people have picked out for being nice to eat. For example, if you search GRIN which is a place a lot of plant breeders look for materials for 'wild tomato', you get 1067 hits: www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/swish/accboth?query=wild+tomato&submit=Submit+Text+Query&si=0There are lots of other seed banks around with wild tomatoes too! We're far beyond the point where it's an issue of someone bringing 'a lot of seed from Europe or Asia', as most of this material is available to plant breeders all over the world. It's no problem to put some seeds in an envelope with a stamp on it. There's far more genetic material available than there are plant breeders, so if you're interested in looking for something, the chances are pretty good you'll be the first to find it if it's there to be found. Tom works with wild species all the time, both tomatoes and potatoes. This is just a normal part of plant breeding.
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Post by PatrickW on Nov 9, 2010 3:47:16 GMT -8
murgatroyd and joseph, Do you guys know about Homegrown Goodness? alanbishop.proboards.comHG is a much more active plant breeding forum than this one with a lot of friendly and experienced people, and they talk about more than just tomatoes and potatoes. More than anything, here is a discussion forum for just Tom and his work, and as such has a smaller number of people and the topics are narrower. There are a number of people on HG with large seed and plant collections, and many of them have access to and make requests from genebanks, and can help you with this as well. Many people there will send you things for little or no cost. [edit]Now that I had a look over at HG, I see the Joseph over there is probably the same as the one here... But maybe murgatroyd hasn't heard of it?
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joseph
Junior Member
Market farmer
Posts: 57
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Post by joseph on Nov 9, 2010 12:19:30 GMT -8
It takes time to introgress a useful gene combination into a domestic tomato background. Would this be a synonym for the above? "It takes time to introgress a useful gene combination into a wild tomato background." I'm wondering because when I am making Indian corn crosses with sweet corn I usually choose to retain the Indian corn organelles, chloroplasts, etc... And I am thinking I would take the same approach if I was actively breeding tomatoes.... Use the wild tomato as the mother plant, and pollinate it with domestic tomato pollen and see what comes out of it... I would think that it'd be a lot easier to observe a domestic tomato trait showing up in a wild plant than the other way around.
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Post by DarJones on Nov 9, 2010 17:23:01 GMT -8
Joseph, Several of the wild tomato species have genetic barriers that permit crossing to domestic tomato but not in the reverse direction. Other than that, the chloroplasts might have advantages from the wild species, especially from Peruvianum. As for domestic traits, most of them are recessive or penetrant therefore not easily observed in a wild background. You could make the cross and then grow out the F2 to see what showed up. I remember discussing this with Keith Mueller a couple of years ago and his take was that most of the time reciprocal crosses in tomato are identical.
DarJones
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joseph
Junior Member
Market farmer
Posts: 57
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Post by joseph on Nov 9, 2010 18:42:13 GMT -8
I love working with recessive traits. They are so easy to select for.
Penetrant traits sound scary.
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Post by DarJones on Nov 9, 2010 18:53:52 GMT -8
Penetrant traits are easy. If you cross a tomato that has fruit the size of a dime with a tomato that has fruit weighing over a pound, and you get a plant that produces fruit an inch in diameter, that is an example of penetrance. The F1 produces something that is on a scale between the two parents but is not identical with either. Another example is the classic cross of a white flower with a red flower and get a pink flower. You can find some similar thoughts with mid-parent heterosis.
DarJones
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Post by john orlando on Apr 30, 2011 6:03:17 GMT -8
Just here!Is anyone inserting Juglone Lupeol Betatin Betatin acetate genes into the American Chestnut?Is it Possible?Can the effect be detected in less than the growth cycle of a tree ?
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Post by Tom Wagner on Apr 30, 2011 8:00:47 GMT -8
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Post by DarJones on Apr 30, 2011 21:43:51 GMT -8
There is a lot to read re chestnut blight. ACF is at BC3-F3 generation trees and will be doing the challenge tests over the next few years. This is an ongoing process because the objective is to find as many fully blight resistant trees as possible with as much genetic variation as can be bred in. Why is the genetic variation so important? American Chestnut had a huge native range from Florida up to Canada and covering most of the Applachian mountains. This means we need trees that can live in a short season climate such as in New York and in a long season climate such as Florida.
DarJones
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Post by jailos alex on Apr 15, 2015 23:31:38 GMT -8
am asking if there is any book that i can refer about vertical and horizontal resistance
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Post by Tom Wagner on Apr 15, 2015 23:45:22 GMT -8
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