|
Post by DarJones on Sept 22, 2010 11:03:34 GMT -8
Found this on yahoo earlier. Since yahoo links tend to disappear with time, I am quoting the entire article.
DarJones
|
|
|
Post by spacecase0 on Sept 23, 2010 15:01:48 GMT -8
I wonder if eating that would take my amaranth allergy and make sure that I could not ever eat potatoes as well. I don't get why they don't think that regular breeding is not good enough
|
|
|
Post by DarJones on Sept 23, 2010 16:38:43 GMT -8
The answer to that question is already there in the article Space. The Albumin gene inherently has to be a protein initiator gene. Since you are made of bits of protein, fat, and water, you can't be allergic to it.
I would be interested in seeing if they have tried moving the albumin gene over to corn. While there is a lot of variation, as a rule, corn is deficient in protein. Amaranth by comparison can run as much as 30% protein by dry weight of the seed.
DarJones
|
|
|
Post by Tom Wagner on Sept 24, 2010 0:26:53 GMT -8
Funny, in one of my potato plots I have some grain amaranth growing for seed increase. Both crops are doing well. I hope to get that crop built up for food security reasons..I eat enough potatoes but very little amaranth grain as yet. Ever hear or read this statement? If that is actually the case..why not eat more tiny potatoes to get that extra amount of skin surface to flesh ratio? Further down I posted some links that add to the story started by snickering bear. I even linked to some supporting data on the amaranth gene that was inserted into those varieties listed. We don't have, nor will be ever have, those potato varieties that are GMO's with the extra protein. The United States and organic folks like myself will collectively stop that nonsense. We already have potato varieties that can increase the protein level by near 50% with good old-fashioned plant breeding. What is the evidence of that? Clearwater Russet, (referenced below) has around 38% more protein than Russet Burbank, one of most widely grown potato varieties. There are other select clones that go even higher. Clearwater Russet was bred in 1995 and one of its parents..Bannock Russet was bred nearly 30 years ago with just slightly less protein. As recently as 6 years ago I had thousands of seedling tuber families with those and other high protein lines as parents. I have many TPS lines that are filially 2, 3, 4 generations derived from those high protein lines. Not having the lab proof of high protein content does not stop me from making the educated guesses of maintaining many recombinations, sib crossings, for the contingency of someday having the grant money to test my many clones for the protein content levels. I am sure I have some good candidates already. By growing clones with enhanced breeding for building up homozygous possibilities, and selecting for high tuber numbers of "B" size potatoes...who knows? I may already have some that would give a run against the clones in India. Back that up with improved flavor, better late blight resistance, and organic friendly growers...I may be on to something. I could even jump start my potato sales of tubers and true seed by initiating a protein sub class. I have millions of TPS that could be relegated to that category. I could even sell special amaranths that folks could plant for themselves to supplement their diets along with my purported higher protein potato groups. The whole idea of my TaterMater forum is to share enough ideas with people so that higher nutrition potatoes can see the light of day. My Negro y Azul was tested by the labs in Prosser, WA for its anthocyanins and it was off the charts compared to other varieties. My high carotenoid potatoes are yet another venue. I have lines that are high in minerals like iron and I suppose that someday I could combine many of those high nutrients into single clones. And soon! Here are some links that support the link from Darrel www.deccanherald.com/content/98184/soon-gm-potato-60-per.htmlwww.newscientist.com/article/dn19473-transgenic-indian-superspuds-pack-more-protein.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=lifewww.pnas.org/content/suppl/2010/09/14/1006265107.DCSupplemental/pnas.201006265SI.pdfSupporting Information for those wanting more technical info. Tough to understand..I know...but then.... As follows..some info on those American potatoes with higher protein. Pardon my clumsiness in putting the info together... www.pvmi.org/Storage/General/Clearwater%20Flyer%201%2009.pdfPedigree( AOA95154-1)….. Bannock Russet x A89152-4 Bannock is a cross of A 75175-1 x A 75188-3 ( Yes, I have been following these pedigrees closely as a cooperator for testing seedling tubers for the last 5 decades.) Bannock Russet… Protein (% DWB) 5.8 % compared to Russet Burbank.. 4.5% Thus 29% more protein than Burbank but Bannock’s offspring Clearwater Russet is again ....38% more than Burbank. A93157-6LS (Premier Russet) The protein by dry weight for different locations may mean that varieties have a trend to produce different protein levels per place and time. But relative measures are all I have to deal with. I don't know where I will strike 'Gold' with the protein levels in my TPS. But with a virtual Gold Rush State right here in Washington with my TPS collections, I will have veins of ore to pan for years to come. Tom Wagner
|
|
|
Post by DarJones on Sept 24, 2010 8:47:34 GMT -8
That brings on a question Tom. If you started with a potato that has 38% elevated protein levels and you incorporated the albumin gene, would you then get a potato with 100% or more elevated protein? I suspect the answer is yes.
Note that I am not advocating GMO potatoes, just asking an academic question.
As for GMO potatoes coming to market, I suspect it will take less than 10 years to see a viable GMO potato on store shelves near you. I'm not advocating it, just saying that it is pretty much a given. Soybeans, cotton, corn, and more have all been modified and we either feed the products to animals or consume them ourselves. Whats that? You don't think we consume cotton? Uh, hate to do this to you, but look at the ingredients in that bag of potato chips. Cottonseed oil!
DarJones
|
|
|
Post by Tom Wagner on Sept 24, 2010 12:50:14 GMT -8
We have choices, and we have druthers. Sometimes we would rather have something like high protein potatoes if the choice was really there. We don't market potatoes based on nutrition advantages. If we ever get to the point where genetically modified high protein potatoes were marketed here, would we partake, or would we have a choice of organically grown..non GMO potatoes like one of my lines or at least the 38% more protein variety: Clearwater Russet.
All too often we complacently sit idle while GMO's are promoted in the press and elsewhere. If protein is all that important why do we ignore the independent breeders like myself? With the proper lab evaluation of my breeding work, I could quickly evaluate higher protein lines grown organically and use them in yet further breeding...followed by multiple protein testing.
Frito-Lay wanted to buy more organically grown sunflower oil from selected producers but those growers did not have the volume to write the contracts. Limited snack products are available that are 100% organic unless you go to one of the many newer companies. Here is a blip about Frito-Lay...
Of course, I like potato chips from Frito-Lay. I worked as a potato buyer, fieldman, warehouse manager for storage potatoes starting back in the late 60's. Would I prefer they use only organic cottonseed oil, sunflower oil, corn oil? Yes! Yes!
Being organic means one is by default....anti GMO. I am more angry with the GMO folks simply because they don't trust people like myself having those seeds, tubers, cuttings, etc., in our hands. It is a control freakishness/sneakiness that I hate the most.
I would like to think that an artisan potato variety would be worth more than a GMO potato.
|
|
|
Post by thefuture on Sept 24, 2010 15:44:20 GMT -8
I would like to think that an artisan potato variety would be worth more than a GMO potato. Hands down.
|
|
|
Post by PatrickW on Sept 25, 2010 5:35:21 GMT -8
Just who is it that thinks a potato higher in protein is healthier anyway? This is just marketing nonsense.
If you don't get enough protein, you can get sick. Do you know what the disease is called? Kwashiorkor. And when was the last time you met someone with this disease? Since it's pretty much unheard of in the developed world, and even in the developing world extremely rare, it's probably been a while since you met someone with it. It pretty much only occurs in the US in cases of extreme eating disorder -- like someone who only eats candy.
Do you know what diseases you can get with too much protein? Kidney disease, Glaucoma, Hypertension, Weight Gain, Cataracts and Gout. It's also implicated in heart and circulatory problems, not to mention just a lot of other modern health problems.
Basically, too much protein makes you grow faster and puts most of your organs under stress.
It's complete and total nonsense to suggest a GMO potato with extra protein has anything to do with good health or sensible eating. A high protein GMO potato is just marketing.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Wagner on Sept 25, 2010 9:26:35 GMT -8
Patrick,
Knowing you and dining with you on two continents, and respecting your eating habits with no meat, I suppose we are on opposite positions of dietary preferences. That being said, I still think that breeders as myself can, and should , be aware of the potential of producing potato varieties, better...creating potato varieties with enhanced protein along with other nutriceuticals such as anthocyanins, carotenoids, minerals, etc.
Since India is the one country pushing for the GMO potato, they must have a rationale that is supporting this marketing nonsense
India is third in the world in producing potatoes. Malnutrition is a collective term, but my guess is that the Indian government will grasp at any improvement in food quality. The stats are staggering....
I reckon that I would like to justify the potatoes I eat as a good source of protein, but it sounds like I should not worry so much about not getting enough protein.
I have suffered from some of the above, but as I am trying to eat more vegetables in my diet, I was hoping to justify breeding potatoes with more protein. I also realized that someday, meat, eggs, cheese, milk, etc, could be costly to buy and potatoes could be my fall back.
Patrick, is my effort to extol the virtues of an organic high protein potato...just marketing? Or is it an effort to offer a choice?
Tom Wagner
|
|
|
Post by PatrickW on Sept 25, 2010 13:17:21 GMT -8
Patrick, is my effort to extol the virtues of an organic high protein potato...just marketing? Or is it an effort to offer a choice? Tom, If you were to breed an organic high protein potato, it would be offering a choice. Anyone privileged enough to be able to eat one of your potatoes is very lucky indeed, and it's not something that would happen by accident. No one would find it added to their fast food french fries or any other processed food without their consent or knowledge. If a high protein GM potato were introduced, it would be about marketing and trying to force GMOs on a consuming public that by in large do not want to eat them. On the other hand, if you were to breed a high protein potato, you would never convince me the extra protein in any way contributed to a healthier diet. It would not replace meat or dairy in any sense. I doubt it would even make you less hungry after eating it, or taste different, than an ordinary potato. What virtues do you think a high protein potato would have, GM or organic?? Besides promoting corporate profits and politics, do you think a country like India would be interested in a high protein potato? How would it help hunger or improve people's diets? Does India have special health problems due to a specific lack of protein? Kwashiorkor was first identified in Asia, when white rice first became popular as an alternative to brown rice. People who eat ONLY white rice and nothing else, are known to get it. By adding a few vegetables or lentils, the problem goes away. I think most of us understand that eating a diet of only white rice is not a sensible thing to do. One possible reason the Indian government is interested in a high protein potato, is perhaps some people in India still only have access to a diet of white rice and get sick from it. I would expect an ordinary potato would solve the problem however, and a high protein one is not necessary. I am a vegetarian, but I'm not lacking in protein in any way, nor do I need to consider it when choosing what to eat. No vegetarian or vegan that I know does, or ever has. This is only something that non-vegetarians think has to be a concern for vegetarians. Virtually anyone who eats a varied diet gets all the protein they need. I've been vegetarian for more than 25 years, and protein has never been an issue. Other nutriceuticals are something else. Everyone benefits from variety in their diets, and I think a number of things have been identified as lacking in modern food like anthocyanins, and we would all benefit to see these come back. This is an important part of the argument for biodiversity, and I'm all for breeding for these things. I don't however think of protein as a nutriceutical, or of something related to biodiversity. I also think it's probably not very useful to breed for something that's a common part of many ordinary foods anyway. We might just have to agree to disagree on this point... I still support your breeding work!
|
|
|
Post by DarJones on Sept 25, 2010 17:57:55 GMT -8
Patrick,
You are correct that an adult can get enough protein in their diet without much extra effort. A few beans or other legumes will do the trick. The problem is that kids can't easily eat enough ordinary vegetables to meet their protein needs. I suggest you verify this before replying. It is not an idle concern. For this reason, I would be very interested in a higher protein potato.
DarJones
|
|
|
Post by murgatroyd on Sept 25, 2010 22:12:44 GMT -8
If I were to throw a suggestion out there how about a potato with more folate?
|
|
atash
Junior Member
Learning from my mistakes since 1964
Posts: 96
|
Post by atash on Sept 25, 2010 23:24:53 GMT -8
You're right, Patrick, Kwashiorkor IS rare.
Ironically, insofar as it does exist it usually happens among children growing up in cultures that over-consume starchy roots such as Cassava--NOT potato, or at least, not as long as they don't peel the potato, which removes what little protein potatoes have, that is immediately under the skin. Cassava root contains negligible protein--reputedly is approaches the theoretical limit for starch content! The leaves, however, are quite rich in protein (and cyanoglycocides!), but it does not have enough sulfur-containing amino acid to be complete.
Insofar as the protein has to come from SOMEWHERE (and as you already know, animals don't really make protein; they concentrate proteins from upstream in the food chain, starting with a plant, probably), it might as well come from a potato as any other source.
Personally, I would be curious to know what the "cost" of the protein in the non-GMO higher-protein potato lines is, because potatoes don't fix nitrogen.
|
|
|
Post by Tom Wagner on Sept 26, 2010 0:32:34 GMT -8
Switching from protein to folate/folic acid is a bit of a jump but not if one is considering the total nutrient advantage of certain potato clones. The main problem I can see if that we are slowly catching up on the effort, and mostly in the state where I live. Highly colored potato flesh is going to be where lots of newly identified levels of folic acid will be forthcoming. The last year i received lots of seedling tubers from Prosser, WA was in 2003, and many of the same clones I received then are popping up as good candidates. Lucky me, I put most of that year's and 2004's increase into TPS. That is the way I can reconstitute the germplasm quickly related to lab evaluations that point the way to the best pedigreed lines. I have done lots of breeding with colored flesh potatoes without resorting singularly to Prosser's material. But it is nice to relate directly to specific bloodlines to make observations. Article Determination of Folate Concentrations in Diverse Potato Germplasm Using a Trienzyme Extraction and a Microbiological Assay pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf063647xwebcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SFD39zFWvioJ:www.lovepotatoes.co.uk/folate-folic-acid/+folate+potato&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-awebcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KpsuNAa5qT0J:www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep07/potato0907.htm+folic+acid+potato+varieties+Navarre&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-aI will attempt to get more info from some of the Washington researches, but it is tough to do. I am outside of the pale and I get little if any recognition for my efforts from them. So, why am I doing all of this research and writing about it. Simple....I am interested, I have lots of breeding experience, I maintain a hugh germplasm of potential breeding lines, most as TPS, I write about it, I am trying to get others involved, I am begging for money, grants, jobs, consultations, cooperation, and not necessarily in that order. Now that germplasm is getting scarce to access due to Plant variety management schemes, I am one of the very few that can explode his little operation into something really significant. If you look at the pedigree for Prosser potatoes you will see that many are from the 2000 and 2002 crossing years. I am multiple generations into crosses that are adapting those very lines to this area and with the template of organic soils. Just today I took some crossed berries from a suspected tetraploid with the tag showing 140 sibs of bulked pollen as the male parent. The seed will likely be tetraploid. The point? That hybrid seed will be 3/4 phureja type in a cultivated type tetraploid. It will have one or more of those nutriceuticals. Growers want tetraploids pure and simple. How do I "know" that something that should have been diploid is a tetraploid? Simple, the leaves and stems are larger, the berries are not cone shaped, and the tubers are larger.
|
|
|
Post by PatrickW on Sept 26, 2010 3:54:55 GMT -8
I think the idea of higher foliate makes more sense than protein. Since potatoes don't normally contain it, this may be a non-issue, but in Europe the issue of vitamin D is getting more attention. This is normally synthesized by your body with exposure to sunlight, and deficiencies are common in northern climates. In Scotland particular, they have a very high incidence of Multiple Sclerosis, which they now think is related. They think in general vitamin D deficiency has not received enough attention in recent years. Patrick, You are correct that an adult can get enough protein in their diet without much extra effort. A few beans or other legumes will do the trick. The problem is that kids can't easily eat enough ordinary vegetables to meet their protein needs. I suggest you verify this before replying. It is not an idle concern. For this reason, I would be very interested in a higher protein potato. DarJones The thing is protein is in so many different foods, and anyone who has a deficiency almost by definition has a number of other dietary issues that have to be addressed, child or adult. A superspud is not going to make a difference, especially considering most cultures outside of the US peel their potatoes, which someone already mentioned would likely remove much of the protein anyway. It's like try to solve world hunger with a vitamin pill. There's this long running debate of should world hunger be addressed with golden rice, GMO potatoes or other new technologies, when the only true solution is going to come from addressing the underlying causes and improving access to traditional and organic foods. Like atash also said, protein has to come from somewhere. A higher protein potato will also by definition be a heavier feeder, and this could cause problems with other crops. Protein is probably much better gotten from nitrogen fixing crops, and something like soy beans or lentils can probably be just as efficiently grown as potatoes.
|
|