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Post by verdeperto on Apr 14, 2013 1:34:42 GMT -8
Thanks Tom. Will check them and take notes and photos (have about 40 healthy plants). Three of the smaler plants have very hairy leaves with purple tips and also show the most dominant upright growth of the lot (one has pinkish stem, the others more yellowish)... rings any parentage bell? Read somewhere you recomend about a foot between plants and three times that, between rows for the final transplant... do you confirm this? I'm in Portugal (wich is kind of Brazil's sibling) trying not to kill your plants. Thanks again.
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Post by Tom Wagner on Apr 14, 2013 7:50:28 GMT -8
Hairy leaves? Sounds likes there could be crosses with the trichome-bearing wild potatoes Solanum berthaultii and Solanum tarijense which have trichome hairs with noted resistance to leaf-feeding insects. I had crosses of these species in the field at different times and hybrids to phureja types.....and wondering if any of those were among the male parents that pollinated the SKAGIT VALLY GOLD flowers. A few pictures of the hairiest potato leaves with high definition resolution may even hint whether trichomes A or B are present.....B types are better for insect resistance.
Upright growth habits are interesting to me...mainly to visualize higher densities...or closer spacings than the one foot distance between vines. Upright potatoes run from very small plants to vines 5 feet and taller. Three foot wide rows are great for potatoes but I often give them four foot rows so that I can walk between the rows longer for breeding purposes.
Purple tips on the leaves? I am seeing that a lot in the introgression of wild species into the mix. What does it mean? What purpose does it pose? It may have to do with high light intensity or tolerance to cool weather. Now that this trait is so prevalent in my breeding stocks.... the linkage of purple tips to other traits might be interesting to establish. In your post it appears that there is already some linkage...small vines..hairy leaves...purple tips...upright growth..and colored stems. Now if that could be followed by a description of the tubers...perhaps one could make some suppositions and continue screening the TPS seedlings for other traits. It may only be that the three plants have a common male parent and the other 37 plants do not share that male parent.
If any of those three vines set berries...a sampling of TPS from those could assist me in studying the segregation of traits but the sib mated seed of those three would be even better. All of these seedling vines you have in Portugal are hybrids and will continue to be obligatory out crossers.
If those small, purple tipped, hairy, and upright vines were labeled A, B, and C....the best study of the progeny would be hand made crosses:
There is no way to get selfed seed such as A x A, B x B, or C x C.
The progeny would help determine if a trait is dominant or recessive..and since they are diploids...that makes it an easier task. Complication could be encountered...linkage to the 12 chromosomes...additive effects...and recessives paring up to create even more visible traits.
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Post by verdeperto on Apr 15, 2013 1:52:24 GMT -8
I'm growing two diferent mixes Tom, the referred hybrid Skagit and another one (you kindly offered last year) that reads "mixed colours diploid". The three mentioned plants (named 2NF1 A, B and C) came from the latest... they also seem to be less tolerant to over fertilization than the others. Thought I should elucidate that.
Regarding hairy leaves, I think I read somewhere, certainly about other species, that it could also relate to some drought tolerance... will try to get good close-ups to share here.
The purple leaved tips are very frequent in both the mixes I'm growing... but for the record, the Skagit are a lot more homogeneous than the "mixed colours diploid"...
Among several other particular individuals, I'd like to point out one that has produced more stolons than all the other plants combined. This is a Skagit hybrid seedling and I presume it must be the earliest plant I have here... I should have allready transplanted it, shouldn't I?
The upright growing habit combined with a "no need to hill-up" trait, could also be of use if one was to try taters in policulture with legumes, for instance... just thinking out loud.
Will post again once I have decent photos so you can judge for yourself and, hopefully, enlighten me a bit more.
Keep up the Good work
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Post by containergrower on Apr 21, 2013 7:31:31 GMT -8
Forgive my ignorance asking this, but why would it be impossible to get any 'A x A' (selfed) seeds? Are they really 100% self-infertile? I'm wanting to understand how
I managed to get 3berries from selling the only cluster of blossoms on one of my plants last year. That was year 2 or 3 of growing-out some sprouted store-bought tubers. I'm not positive it was the yellow fingerling or the reddish one; both were in the same 65 gallon squat nursery container...along with 6 snow peas.
I planted a number of the seeds and got very good germination. Seeds were left in the berries most of the winter, then extracted and dried on a plate only a week or two before sowing about 6weeks ago.
I am delighted to say that my 1st foray into seed-grown potatoes is off to a fantastic start. I needed to be away for the past week, right about the time I'd be hardening off the seedlings from plantings done 5 weeks prior; on heat mats and under lights w/ an 18 hr day...so I did a 2nd transplant, moving the 55 that were almost-to-fully root bound from 6-pak cells to half-filled 4"pots, thinking I might be able to extend their time in containers by 2-3 weeks if needed while their planting areas are getting prepped. I'll probably fill all those 4" pots to the top today & then plant them out in 2 weeks or so, whenever I'm able to hire a helper. Laparoscopic hernia surgery this week means all I get to do is transplant out the 4" pots after paying someone else to do all the prep work. It is likely all of the potatoes will be container-grown so I get to harvest and the voles go hungry.
And FYI, the Black Irish germinated the best and several appear quite vigorous.
Thank You Tom!
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Post by Tom Wagner on Apr 21, 2013 21:10:09 GMT -8
The Skagit lines are diploids and except for a very few are incompatible with their own pollen but a sib is OK.
Great to read that the Black Irish is doing well as TPS seedlings.
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Post by Tom Wagner on Apr 21, 2013 21:10:11 GMT -8
The Skagit lines are diploids and except for a very few are incompatible with their own pollen but a sib is OK.
Great to read that the Black Irish is doing well as TPS seedlings.
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Post by blindrummer on May 11, 2013 18:02:37 GMT -8
Wishing to bump this topic a bit. I respond to questions about TPS on other forum often. Occasionally I write something that probably deserves to be here. Since my cooperators are scattered across the internet......I get questions about why I transplant TPS seedlings twice...once in the greenhouse and then to the field. My answer is here...sorry if you read it elsewhere. The idea is to mimic potato plants grown from tubers. By subjecting the potato seedling to two transplanting venues...the roots multiply exponentially and often the leaf nodes buried initiate shoots that.....rather than form tubers....create new vines about ground....growing thus as a compound plant and the yield of the seedling more closely mimics the tuber grown plant. The first root ball and the second root ball explode with new energy and enjoy the cool wet soil that is present as you continue to 'hill up' the seedling. The idea is to get the optimum environment for a compare/contrast model so that you can select those most likely to repeat their performance as tuber clones. Seedling potato plants....TPS derived plants....suffer vagarious discord if planted shallow...drought, heat extremes, weed pressure, and worse....lodging disorders. I spent a lifetime with TPS...often piddling away, dawdling my time away doing things ineffectively. I want people to hit the ground running with TPS and not develop bad habits. I wish, or hope, to see a day when many folks start their potato patch from TPS (True Potato Seed) and do it well. And let me tell you what.....it is still hard for me to do it well. I am fully aware that TPS is not for everyone....but how else can you get such great diversity of potato types? My obligation is to inform folks of the obligatory methods as I see them....and provide thousands of unique TPS materials to start the Renaissance of Potato Diversity. I am stressing the idea that the potato germplasm bank is in many, many backyards and not in some vault somewhere. We must not let the Monsanto's of the world dictate what we grow and eat. I foresee a generation of TPS growers saying, "This Spud's for You" and share with their neighbors, friends and relatives. Tom Wagner Like |
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Post by Ahmed Abd El-Hady on May 15, 2013 15:15:36 GMT -8
dear dr.
Many thanks for your cooperation with me. This is Ahmed Abd El- Hady Sayed Abd El- Wahab,working as Researcher at Horticulture Research Institute, Vegetable Research Department
Dear Sir
I glad to write to you. I am interesting in (TPS) production and using it for potato tuber production, so if you please.
I read your report
Usability of True Potato Seed (TPS) Technology in Ware and Seed
Potato Production
I send you this message to ask for some seed samples of TPS about 500 seeds from any cultivars because I need it very much in my post doctor research and this cultivar seeds not available for me here and your publications in this subject. I hope you can help me, and I hope hearing about you as soon as possible. Finally, I want to thank you for your help.
Looking forward to hearing from you
I am waiting
Yours
Ahmed Abd El- Hady Sayed Abd El- Wahab
My address: Vegetable Crops Research Department, Horticulture Research Institut, Agriculture Research Center ARC. 1 Shooting Club St. , ( Nadi El- Saied St . )El-Dokki, Giza , Egypt .
Email: azaz2005asd@yahoo.com
dear dr. Mehmet Emin Çalışkan
Many thanks for your cooperation with me. This is Ahmed Abd El- Hady Sayed Abd El- Wahab,working as Researcher at Horticulture Research Institute, Vegetable Research Department
Dear Sir
I glad to write to you. I am interesting in (TPS) production and using it for potato tuber production, so if you please.
I read your report and your Presentation
Usability of True Potato Seed (TPS) Technology in Ware and Seed
Potato Production
I send you this message to ask for some seed samples of TPS about 500 seeds from any cultivars because I need it very much in my post doctor research and this cultivar seeds not available for me here and your publications in this subject. I hope you can help me, and I hope hearing about you as soon as possible. Finally, I want to thank you for your help.
Looking forward to hearing from you
I am waiting
Yours
Ahmed Abd El- Hady Sayed Abd El- Wahab
My address: Vegetable Crops Research Department, Horticulture Research Institut, Agriculture Research Center ARC. 1 Shooting Club St. , ( Nadi El- Saied St . )El-Dokki, Giza , Egypt .
Email: azaz2005asd@yahoo.com
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Post by Tom Wagner on May 15, 2013 17:17:35 GMT -8
Ahmed,
Thanks for your inquiry about TPS. I get these kinds of letters often but are usually private emails. However, a public disclosure like this is good for others to see.
Of course, I want to be able to help. Reply back on the forum by all means but understand that I sell (provide) TPS through my websites; namely tomwagnerseeds.com and newworldcrops.com
As to the varieties of TPS that I possess....some may be better suited than others...keeping in mind the needs of the Egyptian area:
I could address many of these afflictions on an individual basis or collectively which I am happy to say I can.
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Post by Yonder on Jun 11, 2013 22:48:42 GMT -8
In my potato patch I have only one plant that has produced flowers, pretty and plentiful and i do hope to get some TPS from this plant. I would love to know how to get my potatoes to produce seeds. If you have any ideas as i am sure you do please explain. Thanks, Yonder in Georgia.
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Post by Tom Wagner on Jun 12, 2013 4:15:31 GMT -8
I suggest in the years to come to make sure you follow some kind of mineralization. Within the row at the time I place the tubers or TPS transplants, I use a combination of minerals along with some kind of NPK feeding. Since I have been totally organic, that means kelp meal, alfalfa meal, cotonseed meal, dolomite lime, bone meal, rock phosphate, blood meal, humic shale, microbials, compost, pelleted chicken, etc.
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Post by yonder on Jun 12, 2013 20:05:17 GMT -8
How do i get TPS What do i do to get my potatoes to produce true seeds?--Yonder
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Post by Tom Wagner on Jun 12, 2013 21:39:45 GMT -8
The mineralization I mentioned earlier is to provide oomph so that they are more likely to set berries. Otherwise it is best to have male fertile flowers or have them in the area to pollinate the male sterile types which, sadly, are more frequent than not. Outside of allowing pollination type insects to do the work or manually apply pollen...you may still not get berries. Even with the thousands of potato clones that I usually end up with each year...only a few regularly set berries.
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Post by GunnarSK on Jul 30, 2013 7:00:24 GMT -8
The best of my plants from TPS are currently two Diamond Toro (from Tom's seeds) showing a characteristic violet/purple colouring on the leaves near the stem/basis, which may mean that the tuber colour (skin and/or flesh) will be similar. I have also other plants growing from TPS, including a local variety, which I initially thought was Vineta, but it's really Ibis, which is better in accordance with the flower frequency.
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Post by GunnarSK on Aug 11, 2013 4:24:23 GMT -8
I have at least 6 Ibis seedlings from TPS (about 50%), and Friday I relocated them to individual pots (all sprouted in one). I hope all will produce seed tubers, which in turn may givve me flowering plaants next year and hopefully viable pollen and selfed berries.
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