New Potato Leaf varieties of Tomato

[Tom Wagner]

This time of year when I am transplanting tomato seedlings from the germination trays to their own little pots, I make priority choices among the seedlings from a single clone. It is a part of my selection work to make a number one pick of the litter to go into the group of plants that I intend to do the most further breeding work with, let alone the ones that I most want seed from.

Last year during the F-2 generation of a cross I did not find a potato leaf selection among the segregations of my Grandy Stripe and a complex F-6 selection of Green Zebra, Green Bell Pepper, Celebrity, and paste tomato bloodlines. But since I found a clear epidermis, green and red fleshed bicolor with vivid stripes, large fruit size with many locules----I was hoping to find in the F-3 population maybe one potato leaf segregate. There was one potato leaf among the seedlings!!!!

This plant, when it grows a bit more will be put in one of local greenhouse tunnels and will be used both as a male and female parent. Most of the pollen parents will be non potato leaf types, but I will use it a bit more as a male parent especially to other potato leaf types.

Tom Wagner

[canadamike]

Tom, about potato leaf varieties, I have read many times that some people prefer their taste. Myself, I must admit to be pleased with all the ones I grew, not that I remeber all the ones I grew, but I have absolutely no bad memory of anyone.

Is there something in their genetic make up that could be related to flavor compounds ? Some data, even stricly empiric, that would suggest such a thing?

[Tom Wagner]

More on potato leaf finds:

The cross of Tiny Tim X Stupice was made in 2007. The F-1 plant during the 2008 season was a tall indeterminate vine with very red ---1 5/8 inch fruits with regular leaves. Enough said; the hybrid took.

I sowed exactly 8 F-3 seeds and was able to get three potato leaf segregations; two indeterminates and one dwarf. There was also one dwarf, regular leaf plant.

Which plant did I select as my priority pick? Of course, the dwarf potato leaf version. I really don't care what the fruit will be like, I do intend to use this plant in additional breeding. The first bloom will have Stupice pollen as a male parent. This cross may show some promise for the dwarf potato leaf selection once it reaches the F-6 level or above. But then, I will be looking at the 3/4 backcross for dwarf plants in 2011.

Tom Wagner

[Tom Wagner]

Canada Mike,

Potato Leaf tomatoes taste better?

Therefore, potato leaf tomato varieties taste better than regular leaf tomatoes??? Is this an assumption?

Our assumption is not drawn from pure evidence; it is a hypothesis.

Assumptions can be tested by looking at the huge tomato lists and descriptions. Note how many times flavor and potato leaf go together? I must by all rights offer the presumption that implies a basis in evidence {the legal presumption of more flavor in all Potato leaf types}.

The Heirloom tomato enthusiasts assume--- therefore suppose-- that potato leaf types to be the case for flavor, without proof.


Presume. We suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability; take for granted that something exists or is the case. For example, most commercial varieties are tasteless and regular leaf. Many good flavored tomato varieties have potato leaves, therefore tomatoes with flavor have potato leaves....Such is our tendency for leaps of logic and faith.

Assume = to infer, imply or deduce our facts about potato leaf tomatoes and use it as the basis for further processing

and

Presume = Where I tend to overstep my bounds or proper place while assuming a logic syllogism of sorts.

The material fallacies regarding potato leaf tomatoes are also known as fallacies of presumption, because the premises “presume” too much—they either covertly assume the conclusion or avoid the issue in view , thus:

All informative things about Potato leaf tomatoes are useful.
Some websites are not useful.
Some websites are not informative.

All fruit is tasty.
Some potato leaf tomato fruits are tasty.
Some tasty things are potato leaf tomatoes



Since the presumption is that potato leaf tomatoes have more flavor,; only those that do have more flavor are promoted. Imagine the emotional letdown if a potato leaf tomato did not have flavor. One rarely hears about a tomato with regular leaves so totally disappointing a person because of its flavor tied to the leaf type.

Because each trait is on a chromosome and the linkage of genes that are close to that trait are often factors of expression, who knows exactly what is tied with the potato leaf gene?

I, for one, have bred many potato leaf types that I did not think had a great flavor, therefore I tend to observe it as a single recessive trait without trying to assume/presume more than that. That said, sometimes I think there is a little magic at work with tomato breeding. I grew up with my grandmother's German tomato that was pink fruited and potato leafed. It was about 2 inches or so in diameter and only exists now in distant pedigreeds in my breeding work, lost as the pure line since nearly 40 years ago. I wish I could go back and describe the flavor exactly. I remember how it was in the quart canning jars as a whole tomato pack, but as many young people do....never appreciate what they had at the time.

My observation is that potato leaf types have more narrow origins and the bottle necking of old time flavors are to be expected. Since I am a breeder of tomatoes I will accept the premise that flavor and potato leaf go together since the belief system is fairly intact and if it ain't broke, don't fix it logic seems to favor potato leaf.

Some day I will research chromosome linkage to potato leaf.

Tom Wagner

[Tom Wagner]

Just looking at the seedlings of an F-3 family from a cross of Black Sea Man and my Pectin Wine. Pectin Wine combines the Pink Brandy Wine with the high pectin, chilling resistant, frost resistance of my norelco tomato clone. All of the seedlings are potato leaf.

I had to make a seedling choice, so I opted for the most vigorous of the three seedlings I had.

The F-2 plant had clear epidermis pink tomatoes with a "purple" hue. The fruits were a large cherry. The plant was grown in a 2" pot, therefore I only had a few seed. The fact that I even grew a tomato from this progeny in such a small pot favors the smaller fruit size and earliness.

I am trying to get new potato leaf tomato varieties that are earlier and distinctive in a few new ways. This is but one of those.

Tom Wagner

[grungy]

Sounds interesting, Tom. If you let us know when you are ready for trialling (not this year unfortunately as we are full up), we can squeeze a few varieties in.

Cheers,
Val (grungy)

[amideutch]

Tom, my question would be your experience in PL's as far as disease resistance and production. Ami

[Tom Wagner]

Jury is still out.

I like potato leaf tomatoes since I am a potato breeding freak, but I cannot say for certain any great advantage when it comes to tomatoes. I need more data... believe it or not!

I will be taking notes so that when I get to Europe...I will have more data.

Tom Wagner