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Post by marches on Jul 11, 2014 2:11:04 GMT -8
Hi,
I'm interested in breeding potatoes for improved disease resistance and frost tolerance.
I don't currently know a lot about this other than there are a few species that can be used to transgress genes into cultivated potatoes, but the genetics look complicated.
I got some potato berries and last year and chucked them in a dry, shady, sandy area of waste ground and was surprised this year to see a potato plant growing. This area is basically inhospitable as far as plants are concerned, so it's interesting to see the plant growing in such dry shade.
Anyway, that got me interested. I'm not looking to breed with species right away, but cross varieties. Alaska Frostless looks to have interesting frost tolerance from S.acaule whilst there is a series of potatoes in Europe with blight resistance known as 'Sarpo'. I'm not sure if they have multiple sources of resistance. I don't currently know which potato varieties are compatible in breeding or really much beyond the basics. What do I need to know?
I've been breeding grapes for years to get disease resistance of American species combined with flavour traits of the European grape. I mostly work with Vitis vinifera, riparia, labrusca, amurensis as well as French hybrids in this, but grapes hybridise easily.
I'm now looking to improve what is a staple crop in Northern Europe.
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Post by marches on Jul 11, 2014 2:20:39 GMT -8
I forgot to mention, one thing I'm concerned about is levels of solanine in crosses. How do I know that what I create aren't potentially high in poison?
Is solanine a part of potato pest resistance?
In grape breeding when two varieties of low acidity are combined the offspring will almost always be low, usually exceptionally so.
So presumably in most cases when two edible, cultivated varieties are crossed, the offspring should generally be safe? I understand that you can get surprises in breeding. Is there any way an amateur can test for solanine?
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Post by kevin8715 on Jul 11, 2014 6:59:55 GMT -8
Taste it. Potato posions are bitter and tasting a raw one will tell you immediately. Thats how humans have breed wild plants non bitter for all of history. Still valid today.
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Post by Tom Wagner on Jul 11, 2014 23:04:24 GMT -8
Great to have more people step up to the plate to consider potato breeding. Improved disease resistance and frost tolerance are very doable. Virus and blight resistance can be achieved through just a few cycles of breeding. Frost res. in the foliage and tubers can be gotten as well. The main thing is to have lots of varieties to work with...working with other breeders with their materials which may have wild species introgressed.
Working straight out of acaule and demissum can be frustrating and Alaska Frostless is near useless as a breeding stock. Working with a world wide germplasm bank of potatoes has be my answer. Growing thousands of tuber lines is a must. I can provide lots of TPS to get one started and share some ideas as well.
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Post by marches on Jul 12, 2014 9:46:37 GMT -8
Great to have more people step up to the plate to consider potato breeding. Improved disease resistance and frost tolerance are very doable. Virus and blight resistance can be achieved through just a few cycles of breeding. Frost res. in the foliage and tubers can be gotten as well. The main thing is to have lots of varieties to work with...working with other breeders with their materials which may have wild species introgressed. Working straight out of acaule and demissum can be frustrating and Alaska Frostless is near useless as a breeding stock. Working with a world wide germplasm bank of potatoes has be my answer. Growing thousands of tuber lines is a must. I can provide lots of TPS to get one started and share some ideas as well. I'm very interested in working with Sarpo Mira. I read a paper yesterday that said it had multiple resistance genes and was by far more resistant than some other resistant types we have over here such as Setanta and Lady Balfour. Blue13 blight has reduced the resistance of the later two whilst Sarpo Mira is still highly resistant to it. When crossed with Maris Piper (a common commercial variety) in trials it was able to pass on good resistance to some offspring. The main complaint about Sarpo potatoes are the poor taste and cooking qualities, they either take ages to boil or fall apart when boiling too easily. I'm looking to cross Sarpo Mira or something like it with a good "all rounder" commercial variety such as Estimated and to also maybe get cold tolerance from somewhere. I'm in the UK BTW, but I've exchanged grape seeds with Americans before, they seem to get through customs fine. |
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Post by DarJones on Jul 12, 2014 9:50:00 GMT -8
It helps to know what your climate will support. Tom is in the cool maritime northwest climate. He has growers in California in a dry warm climate. I am in the hot humid long season Southeastern U.S. A potato that performs exceptionally well in Tom's climate will not necessarily perform well here. This is why I have sampled a few hundred of Tom's varieties both as clonal lines and via seed. So far, I have identified exactly 3 of Tom's varieties that meet all the criteria I set. (Azul Toro, Chellan, and a <name unknown> purple skin line) I have 6 more that I consider good enough for serious breeding work. I also have several commercial varieties that are worth the effort of growing though not necessarily useful for breeding. Kennebec is the standard commercial variety here. I would love to get a cross of Azul Toro X Kennebec, but this is very difficult because both varieties are a bit off in their bloom cycle and Kennebec is notoriously difficult to get viable seed from.
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Post by marches on Jul 12, 2014 10:10:02 GMT -8
Great to have more people step up to the plate to consider potato breeding. Improved disease resistance and frost tolerance are very doable. Virus and blight resistance can be achieved through just a few cycles of breeding. Frost res. in the foliage and tubers can be gotten as well. The main thing is to have lots of varieties to work with...working with other breeders with their materials which may have wild species introgressed. Working straight out of acaule and demissum can be frustrating and Alaska Frostless is near useless as a breeding stock. Working with a world wide germplasm bank of potatoes has be my answer. Growing thousands of tuber lines is a must. I can provide lots of TPS to get one started and share some ideas as well. It's a shame about Alaska Frostless, it looks otherwise promising. What species can be crossed with tuberosum varieties that will create fertile offspring and pass on useful traits? AndbI recall reading about some potatoes in the Andes that survive snowy conditions and are used to make Chuno - whatvare they, could they be of any use? Could we perhaps create potato varieties that could overwinter in mild areas (like zone 7) with conventional cooking and eating qualities? |
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Post by marches on Jul 12, 2014 10:13:04 GMT -8
It helps to know what your climate will support. Tom is in the cool maritime northwest climate. He has growers in California in a dry warm climate. I am in the hot humid long season Southeastern U.S. A potato that performs exceptionally well in Tom's climate will not necessarily perform well here. This is why I have sampled a few hundred of Tom's varieties both as clonal lines and via seed. So far, I have identified exactly 3 of Tom's varieties that meet all the criteria I set. (Azul Toro, Chellan, and a <name unknown> purple skin line) I have 6 more that I consider good enough for serious breeding work. I also have several commercial varieties that are worth the effort of growing though not necessarily useful for breeding. Kennebec is the standard commercial variety here. I would love to get a cross of Azul Toro X Kennebec, but this is very difficult because both varieties are a bit off in their bloom cycle and Kennebec is notoriously difficult to get viable seed from. I'm in NW England, so cool and wet. Maris piper, Estimated, Desiree, Charlotte, King Edward, Pentland Javelin, Arran Pilot - those are a few common varieties here. My favourite is Estima - very good all rounder. |
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Post by Tom Wagner on Jul 13, 2014 8:00:51 GMT -8
Marches, I suspect my growing conditions are closer to yours than to Darrel's in Alabama. Having visited the Sarpo Mira research facilities in Wales and saw first hand the Sarpo series....I could certainly help you select some lines for breeding. I agree Sarpo Mira is not ranking high on flavor and texture but it is great as a resource against the blue13 strain of late blight. I need more than just the blue13 resistance here in Washington as we have other strains. After I review the harvest of seedlings of descendants of Sarpo Mira and other lines I may have some ideas on what to recommend. Estima www.europotato.org/display_description.php?variety_name=ESTIMAwould be a good pollen parent especially crossing to Mris Piper. I used Maris Piper pollen a couple of weeks ago. An Estima x Maris Piper would be good combination but you will not find enough late blight resistance in them. Taking any of those seedlings and crossing to Sarpo Mira would be excellent though. |
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Post by marches on Aug 16, 2014 14:12:25 GMT -8
Marches, I suspect my growing conditions are closer to yours than to Darrel's in Alabama. Having visited the Sarpo Mira research facilities in Wales and saw first hand the Sarpo series....I could certainly help you select some lines for breeding. I agree Sarpo Mira is not ranking high on flavor and texture but it is great as a resource against the blue13 strain of late blight. I need more than just the blue13 resistance here in Washington as we have other strains. After I review the harvest of seedlings of descendants of Sarpo Mira and other lines I may have some ideas on what to recommend. Estima www.europotato.org/display_description.php?variety_name=ESTIMAwould be a good pollen parent especially crossing to Mris Piper. I used Maris Piper pollen a couple of weeks ago. An Estima x Maris Piper would be good combination but you will not find enough late blight resistance in them. Taking any of those seedlings and crossing to Sarpo Mira would be excellent though. I thought I could start next year by planting Sarpo Mira, Estima and Marris Piper and cross them and then sow the seeds the following year. I prefer Estima for its large potatoes, cleaner skin and good shape over Marris piper which is more prone to small potatoes and lumpy shapes. They're both very good though, but I would say Estima is pretty close to the perfect potato as far as most consumers would think. Magic dragons and Chellan also sound promising. Would love to grow them too if can get tps. Can you harvest them in the first year from tps though? And how should one go about crossing? Hand pollinate or leave it to nature? At least with potatoes I should be able to see some results after a couple of years. Compared to grape breeding that takes 3 years for the vine to bear fruit and a further 10 for analysis in climates and for diseases. Then you'd have a lengthy battle trying to get the EU to recognize a disease resistant hybrid for anything other than use for home growers. |
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Post by Tom Wagner on Aug 16, 2014 23:14:12 GMT -8
I am travelling to one of my seedling potato plots tomorrow to harvest berries. I will take photos to show how some are favorably adequate to produce ample tubers the first year from TPS.
Hand pollination is absolutely a positive over leaving them to nature. Again I will try to take enough photos of over 100 seedling lines of TPS to show percentages of berry makers that were left up to nature to fill out.
I suspect it is true that my work and others here on this forum will likely never get many varieties into the larger market venues. But offering home growers a hand up on breeding is alone a valuable venture.
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Post by marches on Aug 17, 2014 4:29:59 GMT -8
I am travelling to one of my seedling potato plots tomorrow to harvest berries. I will take photos to show how some are favorably adequate to produce ample tubers the first year from TPS. Hand pollination is absolutely a positive over leaving them to nature. Again I will try to take enough photos of over 100 seedling lines of TPS to show percentages of berry makers that were left up to nature to fill out. I suspect it is true that my work and others here on this forum will likely never get many varieties into the larger market venues. But offering home growers a hand up on breeding is alone a valuable venture. I think offering seeds out on forums and to heritage seed banks might work in getting them out there. Many grape varieties don't have a company or institute backing them but were popularized nevertheless. Varieties such as Boskoops glory were passed on to home growers and eventually found their way into garden centres, and Hasanski Sladki / Baltica that was passes around in the Baltic and eventually brought to America. |
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